The London Bus Page In Exile

Friday 7 September 2007

Ken Livingstone is a…

Filed under: Politics — londonbuspageinexile @ 7:38 pm

From 7th September’s Currant Bun.

And there was I thinking painting bus roofs white was a waste of time. Top marks to the painters!



  1. you all have a go at ken but think who realy messed up london transport some people in BLUE i do miss the RMs ,we could have had the XRM if people left it all under one roof all owned by us not share holders

    Comment by mark — Saturday 8 September 2007 @ 7:10 pm

  2. Hello

    We have created a new site for bus enthusiasts called We Chat About .. Buses.
    It is part of the We Chat About community sites ( the bus one is the first to be launched)

    The site contains live flash (needs a little tinkering), Forums, a classified section and more. On the classified section you can advertise items for sale, shows and events

    Comment by danny — Sunday 9 September 2007 @ 2:19 pm

  3. Brilliant! At last, a bit of relevant (and accurate) graffiti.
    I’m surprised that nobody has thought of doing this before.
    When the time comes, vote for Boris!

    Comment by Andy — Monday 10 September 2007 @ 9:57 am

  4. I don’t think it right that anyone condone vandalism of this nature. If it was less offensive (not just to Livingstone) I think it may have a) been funny or b) got more attention, so the ‘artist’ (some sort of ape I presume to get on the roof anyway) shot themself in the foot!

    So, another bus was off the road getting graffiti removed, and now I expect all buses roofs will need to be checked before they depart the garage. Well, that’ll save some money then!

    The only good of it will probably be the call for increased security at garages.

    Comment by pvc — Monday 10 September 2007 @ 12:11 pm

  5. I’d normally condemn any graffiti but I did see the amusing side of this one. Mind you ‘dehumanised moron’ might have been appropriate [and eloquent!] as they were the man’s very own words! And then what about Peter Hendy, he got promoted by the Mayor for getting rid of the beloved RM! You couldn’t make it up.
    No way I’d vote for ‘Bozza’ either, remember it was the tories that destroyed LT and BR.

    Comment by bill — Monday 10 September 2007 @ 1:31 pm

  6. White Roofs, Painters Graffiti, can anybody explain what this thread is all about?

    Comment by Bob — Wednesday 12 September 2007 @ 1:59 pm

  7. Click on the link for the Currant Bun at the top mate.

    Comment by Gavin Cork — Thursday 13 September 2007 @ 5:00 am

  8. Thanks for clarification, agree with no 4 it is vandalism but amusing at that.

    Comment by Bob — Thursday 13 September 2007 @ 9:51 am

  9. Oh what a sad lot you all are..

    I never thought I would see so called “Bus Enthusiasts” condoning vandalism..

    You get the politicians you deserve.. and vote for…

    And there you are, setting yourself up for the next joke/disaster with Boris…

    Thank goodness I left the country years ago..

    Comment by IsarSteve — Thursday 13 September 2007 @ 12:53 pm

  10. ken is like marmite like him , hate him but at the end of the day some poor person has to get on the roof and clean it off we dont want london looking like new york in the late seventies graffiti allover the shop,its bad enough still track side on the tube,use the ballot box not a bus roof

    Comment by ollie metro — Sunday 16 September 2007 @ 3:15 pm

  11. Couldn’t agree more with no 9 unfortunately.

    Every time you politicise on either this site, your predecessor or the books you write it comes across in a very bad light.

    Didn’t the reviews of the Routemaster (“boo hoo they’ve taken my toys away”) book teach you that?

    Stick to the facts, they’re more interesting and would be better if they, like buses, came more frequently.

    Comment by Gertrude — Wednesday 19 September 2007 @ 6:47 am

  12. The facts are that contrary to what this site says, the Routemaster class has not been withdrawn.
    I was in Trafalgar Square yesterday and saw several in service. If I wanted, could get on them and use my Oyster card just like any other bus.

    Comment by pvc — Wednesday 19 September 2007 @ 7:58 am

  13. Was I condoning vandalism anywhere? Read a few posts back and I was doubting the chances of the 486’s new Es to make it past days without having their windows torn to pieces. I just saw a wry link and decided to post it. Blame the Currant Bun, everyone else does.

    Commenter 11, I don’t know who you are, but I think you’ve come to the wrong place. You’ve obviously read the one negative review of my last-but-one book. Would you like me to send you the eleven or twelve reviews that did like it?

    Commenter 12, where have you been for the last few years? Did you see any on the 10, 11, 23, 94, 98, 6, 7, 137, 390, 73, 12, 36, 19, 14, 22, 13, 38 or 159? Unless you’ve got a time machine, I doubt it. And if you do, I’d love to buy it off you.

    Comment by londonbuspageinexile — Wednesday 19 September 2007 @ 5:42 pm

  14. Well this ones caused a stir hasn’t it!!!.

    Just a note on the previous comment on the new E’s on the 486. I sent a post in a while back when The SE london on E’s message was shown stating that BX’s buses were filthy and very run down. Again another huge effort has been made by our local press and the police and I can safely say that there is now hardly a mark on any of BX buses windows and that they seem to be repainting them and keeping them clean. I thought it woulndt last but its been a few months and things are looking good. So we aint all bad in se london are we!!!

    Comment by coolrun — Wednesday 19 September 2007 @ 8:44 pm

  15. I’m afraid comment 11 [gertrude] is in cloud cuckoo land if you think this topic shouldn’t or can’t be politicised!
    Obviously we all abhor vandalism,and politicains who break promises [just about all of them!].
    Buses in London have been used as a political football since the 80’s anyway.

    Comment 12 [pvc], did you get on an RM @ Trafalgar sq? You won’t get far on one as they are token routes drastically shortened and only 10 buses used on 2 routes!
    While we are glad to have them, if it hadn’t been for pressure brought upon the Mayor & TFL by the public, enthusiasts and media we probably wouldn’t have any RM’s at all.

    Comment by bill — Wednesday 19 September 2007 @ 9:06 pm

  16. #13 I was amused by your “not me guv” Yes you were condoning! By giving them “top marks”, you must be giving the painters your approval which in my books means Condoning..

    #15 Thank goodness the RMs are now only on “token routes”.. just the same at the San Francisco Cable-Cars which are also on tourist routes.. that’s exactly where 1950s icons belong…

    I loved the RMs up to about 1982, so long as they looked at sounded like they were meant to be. In their last years they looked more akin to the RTs & RTLs that were sold off the then Ceylon by LT in the late 50s. Dreadfully tatty and uncared for. Above all, not like RMs were supposed to be.

    I don’t know how many of the correspondents actually worked on RMs… but I did .. front & back and I have experienced serious accidents on my bus, where passengers have dived off at a junction only to be knocked down by a following vehicle.. and in 1975 I also had a woman dragged along Dalston Lane on my 38 because she wouldn’t let go of the handrail.. both passengers ended up badly hurt in Hospital. I can’t say how much these incidents worried me in case somebody tried to make out that I was responsible for them.

    Maybe we should bring back horse drawn vehicles to please the entusiasts? They produced less “AIR”pollution and travelled at a speed that allowed the idiots to jump on and off at the back… without breaking their necks.

    No the RMs are not the future for London, they were a wonderful part of its past.. But thank goodness life moves on. Maybe some enthusiasts should “get a life” too?

    Comment by IsarSteve — Thursday 20 September 2007 @ 1:31 pm

  17. Hi Steve,

    If it had been me (and no, I can’t jump that high!) it would have been a damn sight more than one forgettable graffito.

    Let’s turn it around; you were lucky enough to abandon poor old Blighty and move to Berlin, a city that I’ve always been fascinated with and would love to visit. When I look at the BVB I see unity and pride in a city that’s had more than its fair share of ups and downs. It’s a fair representation of the city and its attractions, it’s unique and looks professional in every way.

    TfL… isn’t, isn’t and doesn’t. That’s about the sum of it, really. The withdrawal of the RMs is just the tip of the iceberg.

    I don’t think the Germans have ever stood for the kind of mediocrity and third-rateness that TfL daren’t aspire beyond.

    Sort me out with a flat in the Grunewald and I’m over there like a shot!

    Comment by londonbuspageinexile — Thursday 20 September 2007 @ 5:36 pm

  18. Whilst I agree with IsarSteve regarding comment 9 to a certain extent, the way our political system favours the Labour/Tory axis means that the public wants what the public gets rather than vice-versa on just about every issue. Think about almost anything that has high levels of public support but isn’t on the radar of the main political parties such as the creation of an English Parliament, re-introducing Capital punishment, withdrawal from Iraq, better controls on immigration or curbing moves towards a European super-state. What chance is there of any one of the above becoming a reality unless the Labour or Conservative parties adopt them as policies? We can vote for minor or single issue parties as much as we like, but with sadly few exceptions, the Tories or Labour will always get their way in the end.

    Comment by Phil McCavity — Thursday 20 September 2007 @ 8:12 pm

  19. Matt #17, wow how can I reply to that without getting seriously OT..?? Berlin does indeed have (by British standards) a very worthy Transport System which has seen billions of Euros invested into it over the last ten years or so. (Bus,Tram, Underground, Suburban (S) & Regional Train (RE)systems, as well “Call a Bike” (Something now nicked by London) & Carsharing schemes:…00000..

    But, Berlin isn’t No1 in Germany.. anyone who is interested in really Intergrated transport systems should take a look at Karlsruhe, Hannover, Freiburg/Breisgau amongst many others.. (all those I mentioned are middle sized places similar to Leicester, Derby etc.) and it is due to the political “set-up” of the country that money is invested in Public Transport.

    i.e. A “Federal” system, where Income Tax is collected at a local level and much more is left over for the German States themselves to allocate in their regions. The centralised system in the UK is part of the problem and of course a question of priorities.

    e.g. It would be unthinkable in Germany for cities the size and importance of Birmingham and Manchester not have extensive Underground Systems. Munich for instance with has “only” 1,2 Million inhabitants but has a 90 Km Underground System which has been continually extended since 1972. (Imagine that in Britain?):

    If one were to believe the spin, one might think TfL and London are at the cutting edge of Public Transport innovtion.. oh dear.. I don’t think so..

    Well that’s enough..I hope I’ve not been too OT!!

    Comment by IsarSteve — Friday 21 September 2007 @ 5:40 am

  20. I don’t think TfL and ‘cutting edge’ belong in the same sentence!
    It’s clear that integration and proper investment in public transport in Britian has been sacrificed for the quick buck short termism approach to transport and planning. Look at the ‘Crossrail’ farce, they are still debating the funding after 20years!
    The Eurostar high-speed line on this side of the channel is only just about to be opened.
    Then there is the good ‘ol RM. I disagree with Steve’s comments here. They could have kept more in service. Your third sentence in no. 16 above hits the nail on the head. The RM’s looked uncared for. In fact they were uncared for [apart from Stagecoach at Upton park perhaps], and maybe this was a deliberate policy?
    Anyway tourists want to see traditional and modern London.
    Ken and Pete scrapped the RM without investing in a suitable new RM replacement. Nothing can be done now unless it’s a PPP. And then there is metronet, a fine example of PPP in action!
    Central government just won’t stump up the cash for Public Transport.
    I think I might be moving to Germany [or France!] too!
    Bill [who has a life!] :-]

    Comment by bill — Monday 24 September 2007 @ 10:12 pm

  21. While i generally agree with #16 regarding the age and state of most RM’s, and the fact they needed withdrawal, i think you’re missing a point here.

    The withdrawal should have been about that- age and expense of running, but it was also about satisfying rampant health and safety legislation. I find that this is typical of the erosion of personal responsibilty that has been taking shape over the last 10+ years.

    The people who dived off your bus into traffic, or got dragged along, made a conscious choice to either not let go of the platform, or to leave the bus not at a stop and suffered the consequences. I used to travel on RM’s to and from school as a child, and used to love diving off the platform before my stop was reached, but i was always aware that this had the potential to seriously hurt me. Fortunately i never got hurt, but i would never have dreamed of blaming someone else for it- it was my choice, and like everything else i do i take responsibility for it.

    I believe it is typical of this age (and i speak as someone under the age of 30), that government is encouraging people to believe that they are no longer responsible for their actions by cosseting them with ridiculously over-protective legislation. It basically demonstrates that essentially the people you elected (or not in my case!) believe you to be a complete and utter moron that doesn’t know how to lead your own life, and need to be told at every step of the way.

    Another perfect example of this is tied up in the whole destination display debate. At Victoria (rail) station, the via point destination display for trains to Ramsgate/Dover display Bromley South, Chatham etc, but when they get to Gillingham they specify Kent in brackets afterwards. To my knowledge the only other substantial community of that name in this country is in the west country. I’m sure there’s no-one out there who thinks that in between Chatham and Rainham (also specified as Kent- don’t get me started-although i feel i may have already crossed that boundary!) the train takes a massive detour into Somerset and back! But this is typical of the annoying interference and stupidity of this kind of legislation- assuming everyone is ridiculously stupid, and going to sue you if they make a mistake.

    Phew- sorry about going O/T like that but once i read #16’s comment, i had to get that all off my chest!


    Comment by ejc — Wednesday 26 September 2007 @ 9:45 am

  22. I agree with #21.
    It’s all about litigation.
    Someone steps off a bus, trips up, sues the bus company.
    Child smashes up shelter, hurts hand – parents sue Adshel.
    Pedrestrian walks into bus stop (it’s been there for years)- sues London Buses.
    (Man falls off bus writing on roof – everyone laughs!)
    I could go on. Everyone has to be responsible for their own mistakes, but the first call seems to be ‘who can I blame/sue for this’.

    Comment by pvc — Wednesday 26 September 2007 @ 10:13 am

  23. Re 17 (Matt). How can you judge a public transport system by its website alone?! Unlike you I know the fascinating city of Berlin well. Sure, the public transport system is very good and a pleasure to use, but it has no smart card system, window etching is far worse than in London and the night bus network is not nearly as comprehensive. Also, no U-bahn or S-bahn stations have ticket barriers, and you can board buses during the day through the middle doors – all things you purport to hate in London, but apparently OK in Berlin. I could also mention that German law prevents the extensive use of CCTV on public transport.

    Sure, TfL oversells itself, but start travelling elsewhere extensively and then I can regard your criticism as informed.

    Comment by Steve23589 — Saturday 29 September 2007 @ 9:12 pm

  24. #18 regarding informed criticism:

    Correct there is no smart card system because it just isn’t necessary to install one. (open gate system all all rail services)

    The window etching is probably worse than in London.. that’s true.

    The Nightbus system is not so intensive, but there are also night trams and both U & S-Bahn railway networks work 24 Hours at the weekend.

    No, it is not possible to entrance through the middle doors as in most other cities in Germany.
    Only passengers in Wheelchairs, with pushchairs, heavy shopping trolleys or bikes(at the drivers discretion) are allowed to.

    CCTV is allowed on Public transport, but all recordings must by law be deleted after 24 hours.

    Comment by IsarSteve — Sunday 30 September 2007 @ 6:37 am

  25. Fair comment Steve (24), although the last time I was there (couple of years ago)open boarding during the daytime appeared to be in use. My point in mentioning the open gated system on the railways was to illustrate the fact that some people will espouse the wonders of public transport in other countries while objecting the same policies if they’re introduced over here.

    It’s reasoning that I’ve never been able to get to grips with.

    Comment by Steve23589 — Tuesday 2 October 2007 @ 8:20 pm

  26. I’m afraid to say I TOTALLY agree with #11 & #16. About 2 months ago I drove an RML for the very first time(the company I work for has one as a private hire vehicle). I’ve held a PCV for 14+ years, so am not new to vehicles both old & new. Let’s be diplomatic here……it was a huge anti-climax. Rather like the Morris Minor, the illusion is vastly different to the actual reality of modern usage needs. I guess that’s why steam trains had to go……..I hear they also have a large enthusiast following!?!

    Comment by I'm The Daddy Now..... — Thursday 4 October 2007 @ 12:36 pm

  27. Well Daddy, I’ve had a PSV since 1983 and driven a wide range of vehicles including trains [though NOT steam!]. I sat in the cab of a friends RML at Northweald in the summer and had a drive of it. The steering was responsive, and the steering wheel felt like a ‘real bus’. It was also quite lively, a joy to drive in a nutshell.
    OK having driven RM’s in service for 5yrs I can say they were almost all different, some had heavy steering etc, but you can see why they lasted so long. Quality, pure and simple.

    Someone above used the term ‘London buses’ [comment 22], which always makes me chuckle. Are we supposed to believe this is a unified, integrated operator or just a bunch of pen-pushers in some ivory tower??? I think Iknow which!! :-]

    Also it was funny to see ‘ol Bozza Johnson on local tv news this week talking about !London Transport” [if only Bozza! You’re lot destroyed it remember?].
    Ken and Pete finished it off completely!

    Comment by bill — Thursday 4 October 2007 @ 12:53 pm

  28. #27 Thanks Bill! I welcome your opinions, being a fellow driver(enthusiast).

    Comment by I'm The Daddy Now..... — Thursday 4 October 2007 @ 8:48 pm

  29. I totally agree with 26. I used to drive Routemasters and can’t understand why anyone would want to drive them day-in, day-out in preference to (most) modern buses.They are indeed fine vehicles, but the driving experience is that of a good design from the 1950’s. And why should it be expected to be anything else?

    Celebrate our heritage, but appreciate that things move on.

    Comment by Steve23589 — Thursday 4 October 2007 @ 9:52 pm

  30. Bill (27) – I think from your comments that you don’t know what London Buses is. London Bus Services Ltd, to give it its full name is the local government body responsible for providing and regulating bus services in London. It is not operator and probably doesn’t hold an operator’s license. Under H&S law, though, it is responsible for ensuring that its contractors, ie the bus operators, operate safely. This applies to any organisation that uses contractors.

    Hope this helps.

    Comment by Steve23589 — Friday 5 October 2007 @ 11:51 pm

  31. I was being just a trifle sarchy Steve!
    I am aware it isn’t an operator!
    I worked for LT and LBL [ltd] in the 80’s and 90’s.
    I just get a bit miffed by Ken, Pete, TFL etc trying to make it look like it’s LBL of old and not just a load of pen-pushers!!!

    Comment by bill — Saturday 6 October 2007 @ 12:04 pm

  32. Apart from buses being painted in hideous dull all-over red there doesn’t seem that much of the old LBL etc left, does there?

    I do actually think that the whole thing should look like one homogenous operation (eg Oslo, Copenhagen, Stockholm and others where routes are tendered), rather than the rather strange current combo of mainly red, plus optional colured skirt and whatever fleetename you want – it’s all a bit disjointed.

    Comment by Steve23589 — Tuesday 9 October 2007 @ 8:05 pm

  33. I saw one of NX’s PVL’s this morning with an all-over ad ‘visit Venezuela’. The fact that our dear old ‘King Newt’ and Hugo Chavez are best mates surely must just be a coincidence… 😉
    Is this how we’re to repay the fuel debt? On that subject I find it slightly laughable that a third world country subsidises the public transport fleet of one of the worlds richest cities. Surely this should be the other way round???

    Comment by ejc — Tuesday 9 October 2007 @ 11:55 pm

  34. #20 “Somebody” obviously read your very “cross” Rail comments here… 🙂

    #33 Of course it should be the other way around… but that is Ken’s secret..
    In a City inhabited by “minorites” Ken manages to court all the minority votes which always add up to more than the votes that Boris and his “Hooray Boris’ ” will ever acheive.

    Comment by IsarSteve — Wednesday 10 October 2007 @ 10:17 am

  35. Blimey you’re right Steve!!!
    Only 10 yrs to wait before “cross” rail is operating [being the optimist!], by which time no doubt all the underground will be privatised and Mr. Bendy will be Mayor. I won’t be around in London to see it all! :-[

    Comment by bill — Thursday 11 October 2007 @ 12:54 pm

  36. I drove them for two years in Glasgow and we fitted ours with passenger mirrors to reduce platform accidents which definitely helped. They were the most comfortable bus I have ever driven and I still get tremendous enjoyment from driving the one I own. I would prefer doing a five hour shift on a Routemaster rather than a Gemini Eclipse or Volvo Olympian.

    Comment by Graham Laurie RML2271 (Owner) — Saturday 13 October 2007 @ 10:06 pm




    Comment by Andy Moore — Saturday 20 October 2007 @ 4:44 pm

  38. Blimey! Did the MCW’s run for 50 years then? :-]

    Comment by bill — Sunday 21 October 2007 @ 7:54 pm

  39. No the MCW’s didnt run for 50 years, but then again, they didnt exactly get any favourable or preferable treatment.

    If it was for the massive influx of low floor buses and the feeble government and LT specifying low floors, im sure that the MCW’s would have still been running.

    Correct me if im wrong, but didn’t the Leaside Buses division have plans in place to refurbish there Metrobuses and then decided to ditch the idea.

    I cant see any bus in london ever getting the same treatment as the Routemaster did.

    Im just glad there is hardly any left in London.

    Comment by Andy Moore — Sunday 4 November 2007 @ 9:23 pm

  40. I wish people would stop banging on about Routemasters. There are loads of other buses that dont get a mention. MCWs,Olympians, Titans, Leyland Nationals, SMS, DMS, to name but a few, all good buses which served London so well if not better than the RM. Get over it old timers, the Routemasters are gone. Im not a great fan of the Bendy Bus but thank god they got rid of the over rated ancient RM!

    Comment by Edward Pearce — Monday 5 November 2007 @ 1:04 am

  41. What is it about the Routemaster bus ?. It had 50 years of sterling service but things have moved on sadly. Now its the time of the low floor disabled friendly bus.

    Go in to any transport shop and the shelves are lined with book upon book of the Routemaster bus. All you publishers out there, have you managed to cover every single detail about the Routemasters, ie -: conception, build, routes, seating layouts, engine types and eventual withdrawal. I should imagine even every bolt and rivet ever used has been documented !!.

    Im sure the type of bus has been totally exhausted now.

    Try and find a selection of books for any other type of bus that has operated in london and that can be answered in just one word. NO !!.

    Now im a Leyland National / National Greenway fan. Love the bus. Now this bus operated in London in quite a few numbers (although not as many as the dreaded RM) but there isnt much out there with regard to the london varient in print. Even the Metrobus or Titan, both of which were also in very large numbers in the capital seem to hardly ever have books dedicated to them.

    Now i was born in the 70’s and i believe that has something to do with my interest in rear engined buses of that era. Isnt it about time the publishers out there moved on from “Crusty” half cab buses of the 50’s & 60’s and paid a little bit more interest towards the buses of the 70’s & 80’s.

    There is so much interesting stuff from that era. Dont forget it.

    Comment by Terence Moore — Monday 5 November 2007 @ 11:26 am

  42. Let’s not forget the DMS, a vehicle that aquitted itself admirably in far flung places like Hong Kong – where temperatures and traffic conditions were and are far worse than any London has seen (not many RMs ran out there you’ll note!). I know there are a fair few books on the DMS, but I agree, a book on the Leyland National would be a fine addition – buses that, despite their failings, ran for many years. A worthy workhorse.

    The Titan was something else when it was launched, even against the Metropolitians running at the time. Better to drive than a LS, easily as comfortable as a RM.

    Comment by pvc — Monday 5 November 2007 @ 12:43 pm

  43. As I said its time the old timers laid the wretched RM to rest. Indeed I pay good money to see one scrapped! MCWs and Leyland Nationals rule. Far more superior to that open ended muck! Oh yes Merton when it was solid DMS and Harrow Weald when it was wall to wall LS,s and MCWs…..ah those were the days! 🙂

    Comment by Edward Pearce — Monday 5 November 2007 @ 10:56 pm

  44. I think i’ve touched a bit of a raw nerve here and good for it.

    I’m glad im not alone in my admiration for rear engined buses.

    So what if they look like slabs or shoe boxes, but they were still on the roads of london for the best part of 25-30 years.

    Comment by Andy Moore — Tuesday 6 November 2007 @ 1:29 am

  45. Here, here. And the RMs should have been taken off the road years ago. Im sure half of them were only just roadworthy.

    Comment by Edward Pearce — Tuesday 6 November 2007 @ 9:32 am

  46. Hellfire !.

    Lets not stop there. What about the Ford Iveco Turbo Daily and Doormobile minibuses which were used but the much mourned and missed Luton & District Bus company. These little Hoppanstopper buses plied their trade round all the housing estates of Luton, Dunstable, Hitchin, Letchworth and no doubt many more towns where the BIG buses couldnt reach.
    I started my bus enthusiasm on these little workhorses and im sure they deserve a little mention too. (Ah, those were the days. Round the Jackmans Estate and the Grange Estate every 8 – 10 mins !).

    And while we seem to be on the subject of bashing the dreaded RM, i cant imagine sitting on one all the way from Hitchin to London Victoria, (Route 718 i believe). What a bleeding ordeal. Now a nice SNB would be a pleasure.

    Comment by Terence Moore — Tuesday 6 November 2007 @ 1:53 pm

  47. If Ken Livingstone and Boris Johnson want a real vote winner, i suggest he go out to all the provinces and round up all the Olympians, Titans, Metrobuses etc and put them back on the streets of London.
    Quality Vehicles which “Normals” didnt moan about.

    And can someone answer me a strange question.
    Why do RM “Cranks” get there jollies from whipping up the bonnet at Bus Rallies and lusting over the engine block.

    You dont see us rear engined fans round the back of buses “getting off” on eyeing the engines up.

    And…….how many more times are you gonna recreate the barking route 62 road run Mr Blake….???

    Comment by Andy Moore — Tuesday 6 November 2007 @ 2:25 pm

  48. They probably lust over the engine block cos its overheating. Clapped out old rubbish which should have been scrapped years ago. Give me an MCW any day.

    Comment by Edward Pearce — Tuesday 6 November 2007 @ 11:01 pm

  49. A lot of Routemaster-bashing seems to be going on at the moment, and someone needs to stand up for the old girl!
    The RM was a great bus. It was the epitome of its age, when public service meant just that. Specifically designed for a specific role. It represents a time before the throw away society we now live in. When if things could be kept going they were, instead of chucking them for something supposedly better.
    It was the last in its line of front-engined, rear-platform buses with conductors.
    Subsequent types have been great- I am a big Metrobus fan, but we can see their descendants in service today, the RM we can’t. Maybe they did go on a bit too long, but that’s only because an ideal replacement couldn’t be found, and still can’t. Basically it was something different.
    We should remember all of London’s great buses equally, but a little respect for one of London’s longest serving workhorses please.

    Comment by ejc — Wednesday 7 November 2007 @ 1:04 am

  50. #49 – too right there is! And not before time! There seems to be this almost fascist attitude that the RM is king and nothing else counts or should be counted. What a load of nonsense – it was an excellently engineered vehicle, but outdated even when it was introduced.

    There are huge numbers in preservation and long may there be, but move on – the RM should have gone years ago and now it has finally gone it is never ever coming back, so face up to it!

    Comment by Steve23589 — Wednesday 7 November 2007 @ 8:35 pm

  51. Don’t mind me, I just got curious about the RM vs M skirmish and have finally tracked it down… I won’t knock the RM despite getting less enthused with them the more they were tinkered with but I’d agree that the rear-engine and minibus eras are greatly under-represented in preservation and could do with more examples. I suspect, however, that the commercial origins of many of the early minis sent many of them to scrap whereas even now it’s possible with a bit of luck to find the odd DMS or contemporary types that might be saveable.

    Comment by Andrew Jeffreys — Tuesday 13 November 2007 @ 11:48 am

  52. Let me come clean straight away – I’m NOT a bus enthusaist at all, but reading this blog, I wonder how many of you actually use London buses to commute every day. I do. I’ve been in London for 24 years now and seen all the transport services decline badly, buses especially. Granted, the Routemaster was an outdated design, but it was easy to maintain, narrow so that other traffic in London’s congested streets could pass it, speedy, and practical. The arguments about safety have been well articulated above – a supine, gutless government, promotion of litigation and lack of personal responsibility are the issues here. Accessibility – well, it would have been cheaper to give disabled people free taxi cards than spend hundreds of millions on new buses. And don’t get me started on women with those BLOODY buggies – losing six or eight seats to an overgrown pushchair beggars belief….

    From a complete amateur but a regular commuter, the new buses (and I’ve no idea what you call them) are noisy (especially with stupid automated announcements -for-morons which have just started), uncomfortable (try having your arse roasted by sitting over the engine compartment!), badly designed (vast waste of internal space, pitching passengers around and down the stairs, and out of seats which don’t have rails in front), tremendously ugly in terms of interiors, and, above all SLOW!! I’m not saying bring back the RM but at least lets have something which copes with the traffic and commuter conditions of London and not just off-the-peg rubbish.

    Comment by Steve — Wednesday 23 April 2008 @ 7:12 am

    • I totally agree with #52. I have to say I am a RM man, but I really like the Metrobus as well. I hate this modern stuff too; gimmie a Metrobus or a Routemaster any day. They’re just as good as each other.

      Comment by Busman10 — Saturday 19 March 2011 @ 6:27 pm

  53. I’m truly enjoying the design and layout of your blog. It’s
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    Comment by no2 tablets — Friday 2 November 2012 @ 1:38 pm

  54. Hey there! This post couldn’t be written any better! Reading this post reminds me of my old room mate! He always kept talking about this. I will forward this write-up to him. Pretty sure he will have a good read. Thanks for sharing!

    Comment by Pushchair safety — Saturday 13 April 2013 @ 1:31 pm

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